In this episode of Making Markets, Austin Russell, CEO and Founder of Luminar Technologies, rejoins the show to discuss the macro economy, the stark difference between the best growth companies and everyone else, and the growing demand for the company’s Lidar-based solutions that are set to be key in reaching full self-driving in the coming years. Also, a look at what is going on with Tesla and the overall expectations for ADAS, AV, and EV in 2022 and beyond.
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Daniel Newman: While Elon Musk has expressed his doubts about the power of LIDAR to help auto makers achieve full self-driving, Luminar CEO, Austin Russell, is all in on the technology. In this episode, we explore all things economy, growth, markets and we dive into the opportunity in China for next generation connected and autonomous vehicles. Austin Russell is back, unfiltered and this is a can’t miss show. All right, here we go. You’re tuned in to Making Markets.
Announcer: This is the Making Markets Podcast, brought to you by Futurum Research. We bring you top executives from the world’s most exciting technology companies, bridging the gap between strategy, markets, innovation, and the companies featured on the show.
The Making Markets Podcast is for information and entertainment purposes only. Please do not take anything reflected in this show as investment advice. Now, your host, principal analyst and founding partner of Futurum Research, Daniel Newman.
Daniel Newman: Austin Russell, CEO of Luminar, welcome back to Making Markets.
Austin Russell: Hey, thanks for having me.
Daniel Newman: It’s good to have you back. I always love when people come back in multiple conversations, get to know you better. A couple of sessions at our Six Five Summit now, and a couple of times here on the show. And a couple of random run-ins at F1 events. Earlier before today’s show, you were wearing the F1 jacket, the Aston Martin jacket, which probably isn’t the one that most people see on a guy, but it looked good on you.
Austin Russell: There we go. Yeah. There you go. They did give this one to me. Actually I think to your credit, it’s one of the coolest jackets I’ve seen even though that I have work to do with Aston Martin.
Daniel Newman: Oh, I mean they make a good vehicle. They make some great vehicles and I wouldn’t mind getting behind the wheel of a few of them.
Austin Russell: Well, the Mercedes stuff though is always cool though too. That’s an interesting one because we’re obviously working closely with Mercedes on the car side there too for the next generation of production vehicles. But it’s interesting to see that whole world crossover, but of course-
Daniel Newman: You wonder if someday, the technology that we’re going to see Louis Hamilton with a little Luminar on his helmet. Then you know, yeah, something.
Austin Russell: We do have actually the Indy folks adopted our tech as well for their racing series. They have the Indy Autonomous Challenge, which is actually, it’s pretty cool. That’s all autonomous and powered by that. I do actually think for what it’s worth, not that this is a primary focus or market for that matter, but it is interesting from… It’s basically free marketing, when you go out there and equip this tech on things of something that people normally spend a lot for to just be able to actually get the word out and start showing the capabilities of what’s possible from an extreme performance standpoint, which translates, of course, into consumer vehicles as well. And that’s why, so many auto makers spend so big on these kinds of things.
Daniel Newman: Yeah. You can do some sort of LIDAR fencing at the first 30 seconds of these races where there’s inevitably always two or three cars that crash in that initial bunching.
Austin Russell: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Daniel Newman: Maybe we could keep all the cars in the race a little bit longer if we put a little LIDAR into their world, but yeah, I don’t want to totally geek out on F1. So much going on right now in the world. Have had some great guests on the show over the past few weeks. I had Tom Siebel joined me. I had Bill McDermott on the show from ServiceNow. And I’m talking to different CEOs, including yourself. A little bit different from the initial format where I talked a little bit more about earnings and business progress. We will talk about that at the end a little bit. Although you’re in quiet period or near your period. More of just business progress in general, Austin.
But with what I would say, a six or seven month headwind now for growth. Really no data in the economy that people should feel particularly great about right now. But at the same time, we got to keep churning on. Interested in getting the sentiment of people like yourself that are building growth companies that are going to be critical to the future. Technology that’s going to not only make better vehicles and save lives.
What are you thinking about every day right now with all the news, recession, interest, inflation, war, increased unemployment, hiring freezes? What’s the Luminar Austin Russell take on everything that’s happening?
Austin Russell: Yeah. No, it’s good. I have a lot of takes on all of those different things. I think the most important take is the one as it relates to us in our business and everything, in which case, it affects almost absolutely nothing. And it’s kind of crazy to say that, or almost crazy to hear that, in terms of this. But we’re executing the same plan, same progress, same other things.
There’s a lot of craziness out in the market with a bunch of different things that have been converging that have obviously caused a significant headwinds from a stock market perspective in particular, or equities market, for growth companies there too. That often end up getting bundled into this category that I think is exasperated by a couple of different fronts.
Yeah. There’s all these things, between all those factors that you’re mentioning that are external, but, but I think what ends up happening is that most of the companies end up getting bundled into the same kind of category. Okay, it’s growth company, mostly tech focused, technology driven and technology forward. That’s of course, not profitable at this stage.
But at least with some revenue more than pretty much every other autonomous vehicle company, so to say. Which is zero or near zero, since we’re actually starting to realize some of these things and that’s what’s coming up. But the reality is that we are continuing to execute like no tomorrow along to the plan. We haven’t had any kind of dramatic shifts or changes or anything like that. And are just continuing to double down on everything that we have ahead of ourselves.
And that’s something that I think from a market standpoint, all logic has just completely gone out the window, along with a few other things unfortunately. Between separating out the great companies from the questionable companies that maybe shouldn’t have existed in the first place. And as we know, that there was a period of time where it’s seemed like almost any company could go out there with just an idea, and a slide deck and a plan, and be able to raise a lot of money for something to be valued at something either artificially high or not.
And that this is where the tides have turned, the winds have changed. The music stopped on that as we all knew that it would in one way or another. But the key thing is, is that at the end of the day, you need to have the cash, you need to have the capital to be able to ensure that you can have successful execution. The only thing where it can trip you up is if you need to be able to have additional capital and raise capital, which unfortunately, is actually the case for most of these types of companies.
We actually have a really, really strong position here. We had, at the end of the prior quarter, nearly three quarters of a billion dollars on our balance sheet here. And it’s something that, we are in an incredibly strong position, more than ever to be able to successfully execute that and utilize that capital. We’re actually, unlike most other AV companies of other stuff, we’re not spending or on a net basis a billion or 2 billion a year on anything.
It’s closer to, I mean, just as last year as a reference point, it was about 150 million. We have plenty and plenty of runway as part of this. But importantly, is that we actually have real business here from all of these major wins, which are the first of its kind in the industry there too. We have now nearly a dozen different major commercial wins that we’ve put forth with real OEMs and real companies there too, that are actually going into series production for the first time in the industry. And for these levels of capability.
And that’s what we’re going to be seeing, not too far right around the corner here is some of the key partners. That’s where you have real revenue, real ability to be able to build a long term, scalable, highly profitable business here. And I think that’s where of all of the companies in AV, LIDAR, the stuff, we’re certainly best positioned for that. But even just in the broader tech market, I think we’re one of the best, maybe even the best positioned company to capitalize on it.
Daniel Newman: First of all, I think you said a couple important things I want to reiterate. First of all, solid position on the balance sheet, a cash burn that’s very manageable. And that you’re going to continue to probably narrow the cash losses because you’re adding customers that are moving into higher volumes of production. And therefore, over time, you can manage that, manage the burn.
Tom Siebel, that was on a few weeks ago and you know him, he obviously launched C3.ai. And he was talking about something similar. He’s like, “Look, we have a billion dollars on the balance sheet. We’re losing, X amount we could run for 20 years.” Or some number, 10 year, whatever he said. Basically, without basically making a penny. And I think to your point, it’s sort of like, hey, you’ve got a multi-year runway, you’ve got serious new customers, commercializing contracts. You’re increasing production, increasing partnerships, a lot of good things happening.
I had a thesis, by the way, that is not entirely my own thesis, Austin, but you’ll probably appreciate this. And that’s, we basically went through a period where companies were growing on beta for about the last two, two and a half years or so since COVID. Basically, companies grew because everything grew. There was tons of liquidity and everything.
I said, “You couldn’t be a bad investor in about June 2020 till about November of ’21. You almost had to be just off the radar or off the charts, making crazy bets to lose.” Because almost everything won. Crypto won, growth won, value won. I mean everything maybe except oil. It was the only thing you didn’t win on over that period of time.
I said, “Now, we’re in a period of alpha where people like yourself, strategic companies have to figure out how to differentiate, how to build better products.” We are getting back to the best companies will win. The best companies with the best leadership, the best technology, the best investors. And it sounds to me like, in your case, the best partners and companies that are adopting your technology.
And so, I mean the trajectory looks good. Of course, none of us are tarot card readers or we’re not reading crystal balls so we don’t know what will happen, but it looks good. The indicators are good and partners like Mercedes. Some of the partners you’ve won in Asia are pumping up volume. And of course, you guys are doing something that I think the market’s going to take note of. And that’s really addressing not just autonomous driving and assisted driving, but safety. And the technology that can enable safer vehicles.
And this made me think about the recent, at Tesla, one of their top AI chiefs, Andrej Karpathy, just left. And that’s a very interesting one. You’ll hear Pat Moorhead and I talk on our Six Five podcast a lot about how we think Tesla probably got it wrong by going all in on camera. And that’s why they’ve missed their deadlines on full self-driving. They’ve missed their deadlines on robotaxi.
This is not an indictment of everything Tesla does. Fan boys and girls out there, do not yell at me. I’m just saying there seems to be multiple layers of technology. And I call it a trifecta. It’s vision, it’s radar and it’s LIDAR. And LIDAR is proven, especially for those more complex environments, to have a bigger safety profile.
Why is Polestar working with you? Why is Mercedes working with you? These are companies that are amping up production in their EV and ADAS space, world renowned companies. And I think they care about being safer. Talk a little bit about that. Tesla’s having some turnover. They’ve got a disproportionate amount of the safety issues related to ADAS. And is this opening the door for companies like Luminar to make a bigger play here? Is this all expected to you? What’s your take on all this?
Austin Russell: Yeah, yeah. No, I think at the end of the day it’s, yeah, funnily enough, some of it is… No, it was interesting to see that all these things play out. I can’t say that, at least as it relates to me, a lot of it is unexpected. Maybe it’s a surprise to a lot of folks out there in terms of how this has all played out. But this is perfectly aligns ultimately with the business plan that we had.
And it’s the same thing of you have all these different macro factors, you have all these other stuff. It’s the same kind of conversation, doesn’t actually affect the core of our business. And we’re seeing this extreme growth independent of that. It’s really, it’s driven by the OEMs at the end of the day. And that’s what’s the key driver behind how you can realize this and make this happen. You obviously have to have the right tech to do this.
But this is where, when we see in this case, the substantial majority of the OEMs that are now working with us, to be able to build these kinds of next generation autonomy and assisted driving, next generation safety systems on the vehicles that ends up making all the difference. And this is where, I think that you take a look at that Tesla case that you say in there too. And almost infamously tried to make the bet early on in 2015. To be fair, before any of our stuff was even… We were still in stealth mode. Wasn’t a thing, wasn’t available to put on cars, where you ended up making a similar system to what Mobileye had.
The whole point is what’s next? What’s the next generation there too? And it doesn’t matter what marketing term you call it, full self-driving, robotaxi, all that other stuff, none of that is happening. It’s not, unfortunately, in the way that things have been currently set up. But the point is it doesn’t need to be. It’s not there. I actually, part of the whole point with the company from the beginning is that we made the bet that we were going to be able to go all in for consumer vehicles around next generation safety capabilities and highway autonomy capabilities, is seeing that that’s a more constrained problem.
And by the way, that’s even with this crazy high performance LIDAR that makes it 100 X easier thing, with cameras. And of course, the equivalent on a safety increase in terms of opportunity of what you would have on a vehicle. And that’s why you see other things, even in that case, we have one of the long time leaders of Tesla autopilot that, and, most recently as well, leading a significant portion of Apple’s autonomous team joined us, CJ Moore. From a software standpoint there, that’s driving that whole side forward with Luminar in that case.
I think it just goes to show, we obviously have great partners with the Mobileyes of this world and other folks as well, that have been all in on camera approaches previously. But again, the question is, what are you trying to do with it? If you’re trying to do with some basic level two system that’s where things are today, you don’t need like some advanced LIDAR for.
If you want to be able to actually get next generation safety, you want to move towards that building ability, the vision of building the uncrashable car, you want to actually enable autonomy and the next gen capabilities, then that’s the whole point of where we come in. And the cool part, and why we’re also so insulated from some of the rest of all the rest of this craziness, is that from a relative market opportunity. I mean, it’s not like we own 100% of an established saturated market here to that we’re trying to squeeze blood from a stone.
It’s that, it’s our whole goal of how we think we can build a just massively valuable business out of this. It requires only three to 4% market penetration by 2030, which would already actually be more than covered by just our existing customers alone, much less new ones, as we execute. That’s the kind of thing that you see that how you can build. I mean, in this case, as I said before, that’s how you build a business with 5 billion revenue, two and a half billion EBITDA and a 60 billion forward looking order book.
And that’s just with a very small market penetration. We hope that we can do an order of magnitude more than that. All those factors take into account combined. I mean, this is where people are all in on us. They’re continuing to go more and more all in on us. And that’s where you can see auto makers happen, having to do that this year. And also part of the part of why I think some of the crazy market dislocations are even more surprising.
But nevertheless, we’re heads down. Where we could do next, we’re making stuff happen. We have this great new leadership additions that are making all the difference, like CJ and like Taner, who previously founded the NVIDIA automotive business and is driving a good chunk of the business there.
Daniel Newman: Well, maybe you can go back and help Apple with Titan. Seems to be a bit of a mess of maybe bringing the talent and go back and say, “Hey, we got some ideas. We can help you guys make this work.” We saw that with the next generation CarPlay. Apple, certainly, digital cockpit. I wouldn’t say they have an advantage. They have an inherent, entrenched user base on the digital cockpit side. That’s not really what you’re worried about anyway, but I would say on the autonomous and the driving side, first off, you’re right about the L2 plus stuff, although I would argue that there’s no real fault in trying to make every vehicle safer.
And so, whatever technology can be added to make every vehicle safer. And then of course, as all the companies, including yours, and you mentioned Mobileye, Qualcomm, NVIDIA, all these companies that are building for ADAS of the future, more and more of this building blocks approach.
If you’re building cars and you want to be able to over time have that upgrade path. You really need to be thinking about, “Well, maybe now it’s L2 plus, but what’s it going to need to look like in the future as you try to move into, L4 and beyond? And how can software and these technologies be a part of that?” I still think there’s an opportunity for you guys to influence and participate in a lot of different vehicles. And of course, the partners that have picked you are also indicating that. Many of the people that have picked you are picking you into the future.
But what I really do believe is even today, companies could be more proactive, could be more focused on safety. We like to fight in this country about the value of life. And I don’t want to get political here, but I’m saying, these are real lives that could be saved. All I’m saying is it’s a very odd world. And you mentioned about all this dislocation, all the forces of the economy and the market.
And I love that you said this, and for everybody out there that is listening to this. I mean, when the market’s going up, we have this fundamental belief that it will never go down. I just, I still remember, Austin, all the way into late October, even early November last year, every pundit going on CNBC and being like, “Buy tech, buy tech, you can’t go wrong buying tech.”
And then right around in November, when it started capitulating, everybody’s coming out saying, “Buy value, buy value, buy value.” And then value goes all the way up. And then into this cycle where it’s gone way beyond what it should be priced. They’re still spouting. And now it’s, “Buy oil, buy oil, buy oil.” And what I’m saying is usually I guess a lot of people do really well when they can see what everyone else doesn’t see. That whole, the big short.
Austin Russell: Yeah. When you cut through the noise. Yeah, exactly.
Daniel Newman: No. But like right now, you look at growth and you’re like, “Okay, is Luminar 50%, 80%, whatever it is, is it really doing less?” No it’s grown, it’s got more customers, more revenue. You know what I mean? If you liked it at A, you should really like it at B, but people seem to, think every knife is falling. And they think every rocket is going to fly forever. And that’s just this, the stupidity of it.
Austin Russell: That’s what I’m saying is that the point is that on average, there are some instances where, certain things can make sense, certain types of companies that should shouldn’t have existed and certain types of things that should.
Daniel Newman: Features that became companies in a good market.
Austin Russell: And they’re ultimately paying the price of what it is, but the reality is, is that for great companies, like I said, in particularly this very specific segment of growth technology, that’s more futuristic tech, that’s really high tech stuff that can make a huge difference. In this case, it’s just, all logic is completely out the window.
That’s where, as you said, we’ve never had more conviction in the business and everything that we’ve had to date as it relates to this. And 100% all in to see this through and make this happen. We are and will make it happen. Just as much actually have even more conviction and confidence in everything that we had, in not just the base case, but even the aggressive cases, for what we had about six months ago as we do today. That’s why it’s weird.
Daniel Newman: Yeah. You just doubled down on my whole grow on beta. There were some companies I said there were features that became publicly traded companies, and those companies, those are chickens coming home to roost right now. They never should have gone public. They weren’t really companies, they were like a feature that somebody should have put out under a bigger platform. But that’s what I’m saying, separating the noise from the crowd, and figuring out what the right companies are.
I got a few minutes left with you. One other thing I thought was really interesting is, the east is a really interesting market right now. China’s still having COVID lockdowns, but from when it comes to your space, it’s probably the biggest growth opportunity on the planet. I mean, just the volume of vehicles. And so, while we talk a lot about Tesla and Lucid and Rivian here in the States, there is a plethora of vehicle and autonomous vehicle and EV and AB companies.
What is Luminar doing there? Is that a market you’re concentrating on? Are you focused? Is that a growth opportunity? And can you give me a little bit about what you see in China and beyond there?
Austin Russell: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I think, China is often one of the least understood or underrated critical markets. Is actually the biggest auto markets in the world is in China right now. And yeah, as you were saying that I think a lot of certain types of companies don’t get the attention where, I mean, you have a company like SAIC, that we’re working with. That’s bigger than all of the American automakers and other kinds of equivalents on a scale basis. But the reality is that, is very, very few people know about these kinds of companies and the magnitude of what they have.
SAIC for example, is a lead partner that we have in China, that’s establishing us. And actually going to be really all into launch with us on a vehicle in the not too distant future as to really kick off the first, series production implementation of this. I mean, obviously we have a lot of different auto makers that are lined up internationally here. We said SAIC, Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes, Nissan. Just as a few of them that have gone out recently and publicly. Have been public with their plans already. But among other technology partners, like the NVIDIAs and Mobileyes and other stuff of this world as well.
But the reality is, is that I think China is unquestionably a massive opportunity that’s there in the right areas. Just as with the stuff in the US, there’s a lot of noise in China. There’s a lot of other stuff there’s a lot of dead ends. There’s a lot of probably the substantial majority of the EV landscape won’t exist X number of years from now, just in terms of those types of companies. But again, it’s the best companies that end up actually making all the difference.
And that’s where you would take a look at a very solid established player, like SAIC. And that’s where we see really a fundamental inflection point in our business as well, is really getting into series production. China is moving very aggressively, very fast. And we think it can actually be a very good thing as well, because it only reinforces and strengthens the industrialization. And really, the use case out there on vehicles by starting in China.
And so, that’s all coming together quite well. And I think there’s going to be a lot of exciting stuff not too far around the corner in terms of the inflection point. Because the second that you go into series production on these things, that’s what ends up making just a massive difference. That’s the fundamental inflection point for the business. And I think also where, same thing for us, is that we’re no longer that more R&D focused technology company.
And we’ve been laying all the groundwork for years to ultimately make that difference in the auto market. But this would be the first time that this level of capability is introduced onto a real vehicle, a real consumer vehicle, and one that you can buy. That’s what makes all the difference. And really excited to be able to get out there with that and break some fundamental new ground for the industry. Yeah, China is a critical. The other thing to support that as well is we have a new head of China, or our first head of China who we hired. His name is actually Jackie Chen. Yeah, exactly.
Daniel Newman: I grew up in that era.
Austin Russell: Exactly. Yes. In this case, it’s a Chen set of a Chan. I know, right. But he was previously the president of Harman China, the very established large scale unit tier one, everything there too. He’s just basically building up this office from scratch here. And it’s been very great successful, the level of and caliber of talent that we’re attracting in China is very strong.
And we are expecting to grow very substantially in China over the course of the next six to 12 months. That’s going to be a definitely a key market that is going to be a key driver. And I think it’s going to hit folks out of nowhere, maybe as some of this happens and some of this materializes there too. Where it’s like, “Wait, what?” Because everything’s on the down low. The same kind of stuff that people see stuff in China there too, that just doesn’t make its way over to the US. I think that’ll be a pleasant surprise, so to say.
Daniel Newman: Well, it’s very exciting progress. You’ve had a number of big wins. I’m expecting some others, whether it’s been Polestar, Mercedes, Volvo, get that same kind of momentum. And coming out of China, you got huge volume opportunities. And by the way, very strong interest in adoption and a lot of infrastructure expansion that’s going to probably make some of this technology easier to implement because a lot of the infrastructure’s being expanded in real time.
Where in the US, we can’t even pass a bill to manufacture chips, even if it means we don’t have any. We are just off the reservation. I know you have earnings coming up early August. Crossing my fingers, wishing luck. I guess there, won’t ask you much to talk about that, because it’s never a great question to ask before. But maybe we can talk about that a little bit after, Austin. And then, I guess, am I going to see a quota?
Austin Russell: I think it’s fair to say the whole point in terms of the big picture of what we’ve been reiterating, I think it all reinforces nothing’s changed in terms of the big picture about. I think the point is that what we’re going to continue to prove time and time again, is that we can execute. We can do well at this. And all these other crazy macro factors are frankly, completely independent of us. And we’re actually doubling down and growing and everything behind it. Of both we’ve substantially increased the fundamental value of the business. That’s so that.
Daniel Newman: Well, most of the world’s greatest companies grew out of tougher economies. I know you will seen a cycle of what would consider a stronger.
Austin Russell: Yeah, there actually is a silver lining to all of this as well because we’re insulated from all of this. Is that what ends up happening and for the companies that aren’t doing well and are really struggling there too. And when they need dramatically more capital, they’re not meeting the milestones. They’re years off and probably never going to meet the milestones for technical feasibility reasons or otherwise.
Then what ends up happening is that most of those companies go to the wayside. Most of the companies in the LIDAR space and AB space, for example, will not survive. And it’s almost a grim message in that respect. But the reality is that, well, one that’s already reflected in the market today. I think, most of those companies have an enterprise value of near zero of just the remaining cash they have.
Well, but what ends up happening is that actually just further can end up solidifying the winner take all type approach of this. Of as we actually deliver, execute, scale, with this and continue to do so, that ends up being a massive advantage for a continued accelerant there too, from a competitive landscape perspective.
Obviously, ultimately the best tech product, company business, with commercial wins, ends up winning at the end of the day. But I think this just further enhances and accelerates that. There is a silver lining. Maybe more than a silver lining, at least as it relates to us.
Daniel Newman: Yeah, absolutely. Well, listen, you’re pretty young. I still like to think I’m pretty young, but now I’ve been through dot bomb, been through the Great Recession. I’ve been through whatever the heck they’re going to decide to call this later on. Worst market in 70 something years is what they’re saying for the start of this year. But at the same time, we’re all surviving.
And I always say, every time you come out of the other end of one of these things, your skin gets a little thicker. Your armor, few less chinks in that armor, a little bit more strength. And overall, like I said, this is technology the world needs. Some people may agree or disagree with Kathy Wood and some of her thesis. But what I will say is there are certain technologies that are deflationary. There are certain technologies that will change the world. And markets, at times, will not value them. But over the long haul when you zoom out, those technologies tend to take off, they tend to rip and roar.
Austin Russell: Exactly. You have to measure it over a multiyear period. It’s a five year period of this.
Daniel Newman: It’s totally. A five, 10 and beyond. Everybody remembers when AMD was a buck, and Apple went to single dollars. When Amazon, after the… What I’m saying is if you thought about it and if you really believe in it-
Austin Russell: But I think that’s actually where it ended up being an advantage. You take a look at the Amazon case and all these other ones, that whole dot com bubble.
Daniel Newman: Totally. Totally. But the people that had it.
Austin Russell: Wipes out everyone else. And then, there’s two ways you win at the end of the day. One is by outpacing everyone else in the race and winning. And the other one is being the last man standing.
Daniel Newman: Or both. Or both.
Austin Russell: Or both.
Daniel Newman: Absolutely.
Austin Russell: We’ve already been number one, so I think we’ll be number two as well.
Daniel Newman: Well, Austin, I really appreciate you coming back on the show. We always love having you here on Making Markets.
Wishing you all the best, excited to see what’s coming next from you. We’ll have you back real soon. Thanks for joining me today.
Austin Russell: All right. Thanks, Dan. Great to see you. And awesome stuff there too. I think it was good questions and perspective. We’ll see you around.
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Daniel Newman is the Principal Analyst of Futurum Research and the CEO of Broadsuite Media Group. Living his life at the intersection of people and technology, Daniel works with the world’s largest technology brands exploring Digital Transformation and how it is influencing the enterprise. Read Full Bio