On this episode of the Futurum Tech Webcast – Interview Series I am joined by Shane Orlick, Chief Revenue Officer for WalkMe, for an exciting conversation about the growth of the company over the last year and the expansion of the digital adoption platform in the workplace.
Managing App Sprawl in the Workplace
In our conversation we discussed the following:
- A quick overview of WalkMe and their recent IPO
- An exploration of the massive tech sprawl in the workplace
- The complexity of the sales tech stack
- How data can be leveraged to help organizations mitigate app sprawl
- Real-world customer success stories that solidify WalkMe’s position in the market
If you’d like to learn more about WalkMe and their offerings be sure to download our recent research report, Enterprise Guide to Digital Adoption. You can also check out their website or watch the full episode below. Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode
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Daniel Newman: Hey everybody, welcome to the Futurum Tech Webcast, Futurum Tech TV, I’m Daniel Newman, your host principal analyst, founding partner of Futurum Research. Excited about this edition of the Futurum Tech Webcast Interview Series. I have Shane Orlick, Chief Revenue Officer at WalkMe joining the show, where we are going to cover a whole lot of ground. We’re going to talk a little bit about the company’s venture to becoming public this year. We’re going to talk a little bit about the process of what happened before that. We’re going to talk about the growth of the digital adoption platform, and basically for anyone out there, that’s not familiar with WalkMe, we’re going to get you more familiar. So in just a moment, I’m going to bring him on the show.
Now, real quickly, quick disclaimer, stuff. This show is for information and entertainment purposes only. So, while we are talking to and about publicly traded companies, please do not take anything we say here on the show as investment advice, and without further ado, join me in welcoming Shane Orlick to the Futurum Tech Webcast. Shane, welcome to the show.
Shane Orlick: Hi, Daniel, thanks for having me on the show, excited to be here.
Daniel Newman: Yeah, super excited to have you here. Big year for your company, going to dig into that here, throughout this conversation. Not going to put all the pressure on you because in your role as chief revenue officer, I want to hit you up some more about growth, about customers, about other things, but of course it has been a big year. I guess before we dive in and we start talking about some of the different things that we are working on, some of the things we’ve worked on together, some of the things that you’re doing in the market, tell me a little bit about yourself, your background and how you landed as chief revenue officer at WalkMe.
Shane Orlick: Yeah, sounds good. Thanks Daniel. So, I’m an enterprise software person. I’ve been in enterprise software for a long time, over 20 years here. I’m always drawn towards solutions that deliver value to our customers. So for me, once I saw the problems that WalkMe was able to address, like the impact it actually had on the customers, how excited they were about working with the companies. I just knew I had to be here. I also had an unfair advantage. I was the fourth Orlick to join WalkMe. So, I had a little bit of a look behind the curtain here at WalkMe for a long time.
So, I’ve been here for four and a half years, but before getting here, my cousin, his wife and my other cousin had both worked here and I got to see the impact they were able to have on customers as well. I guess throughout my 20 years in enterprise software, the biggest problem we’ve always had was making sure that this solution, the value of the solution that we were selling, was actually delivered to the customer.
We spend so much time on the evaluation, so much time in the sales process, that when it got time to actually deliver the software and implement it, people were burned out. Then the software didn’t really get implemented the way that we had promised sometimes. So, once I saw the impact that WalkMe could have actually getting the value out of the tools they bought, I just knew I had to be here.
Daniel Newman: That’s a really interesting backdrop, we’ll call it the Fourlicks.
Shane Orlick: Yeah, that’s good. That’s good. At one point we were about 1.5% or 2% of the company. Now we’ve gotten a lot bigger as an organization, but hopefully our impact is still strong.
Daniel Newman: You have kids?
Shane Orlick: I do. I have three boys, three crazy boys, 9, 11 and 14. So yeah, they’re keeping me busy. I try to coach all their sports and get as much time as, as we can with them.
Daniel Newman: Well, let’s get through school and then you can have them join WalkMe.
Shane Orlick: Don’t think that thought hasn’t crossed our mind. We already have them dialing for dollars there, on the BDR lines.
My oldest one, he’s actually just started high school this year as a freshmen, and he’s asking to come work here and start making cold calls. So it might happen sooner than we think.
Daniel Newman: I love that. I love that. Yeah, so the problem and the challenge, is something that I’d love to discuss with you a little bit. You alluded to this a little bit early on in the conversation, but you said you spent 20 years in SaaS, but let’s just talk about the IT, the sprawl. So over the last decade, we keep hearing about this digital transformation that’s going on. The verbiage has changed, the vernacular, what we call it continues to change. But what we have seen is companies have made massive investments, whether that’s been migrating to the cloud, whether that’s been building hybrid architectures, whether that’s shifting from legacy, or custom-built ERP and systems of record software to having software that’s been built, or scalable, or what would you say? Out of the box solutions in SaaS, that can more rapidly help companies transform and meet their next generation of goals, both for internal process management and then of course customer experience, but that sprawl hasn’t come without some challenges. I mean, as you mention, the 20 years, I have to imagine that you have seen this problem become more and more significant with every new iteration of technology that becomes supposedly easy, there’s all kinds of tech debt and legacy that these companies are up against.
Shane Orlick: Yes, it’s exactly right. So oftentimes, the answer to solving that problem is more technology. What happens is that most companies don’t have a real great, strategy around digital transformation. It’s reactive, they’re trying to solve different parts of it, but they don’t really have the insight and the analysis of the entire tech stack and how it all works together in order to really affect that transformation. So, we see folks call digital transformation … Digital transformation means all kinds of different things to different people and so, that’s a large part of the reason it fails, or it hasn’t been as successful as it could be.
I do think we’re starting to get the hang of it. I think companies are figuring out, they’re starting to specialize and have more success over the last couple of years than they have in the past. But we definitely see it all the time and we love when that light bulb goes on, when we are showing a CIO the CIO dashboard and we give them the ability to see for the first time ever really, their entire stack of technology and how it integrates and works together and how users are actually trying to use the technology. Oftentimes we fail because we’re not really taking into consideration the impact that it has on the end user. We just throw more technology on the end user and that poor employee is just trying to do their job. They’re just trying to use only enough technology to get back to work, to do their job, and now they have another system that they need to learn.
So for us, it’s all about understanding the insight of what a technology is deployed, how your employees are trying to interact with that technology, what job they’re trying to do, and then trying to automate that process as much as possible so that we take all the guesswork out of it. We just literally hold their hand, walk them through the process and get them back in into their day job.
Daniel Newman: Absolutely. So I’d love to jump in here and talk to you a little bit about, we did this digital adoption guide, or we call it the enterprise guide. We worked together on it, WalkMe, Futurum Research. We really were exploring the challenges that organizations face when driving digital, how to overcome them. One of the things that we had said was that the differentiation between companies that are going to surge ahead and companies that are going to struggle, isn’t just about the technology, but it’s about their ability to employ that technology successfully in the business and get people using it.
So, you’ve probably seen statistics, Shane, about companies that invest in analytics, outperforming companies that don’t, but the demarcation and where I think WalkMe’s so interesting is it’s not just about buying the software. It’s not just about having Salesforce, or Dynamics, or name it, Tableau, whatever you’re using but it’s about putting it to use, getting value out of those analytics and companies have really struggled to measure that. I see that as an area that you guys are really differentiating, is that something that you’re really noticing? How important are you finding that to be from the interactions you’re having with customers?
Shane Orlick: Yeah, it’s great question. I think it goes in that camp of what’s been seen, can’t be unseen. I think in the past, because people didn’t have those analytics, they didn’t have that insight into usage, it was okay for a CIO not to know exactly how the software was deployed, or even if it was deployed, or where it was deployed. But what happens is very quickly, once people see WalkMe, once they see the power of insights, once they have the understanding of how important it is to actually know what your end users, your employees, or your customers are doing in the technology every day, and whether they’re able to complete their process or their journey, especially when those processes are tied to making or saving money, once that light bulb’s gone on you, can’t unsee that. You can’t then go back to a world where you’re running blind and you don’t have insight into how that technology’s deployed.
I can give you a great example. We use Salesforce. We also use Clari as our forecasting tool on top of Salesforce. And we were using Clari for a while, for a year and people liked Clari. We were able to roll up our forecast, we were using it in our pipeline meetings, our one-on-one meetings, and it came time for the renewal. So we asked the question, are people using Clari? How are they using Clari? Do we want to renew this application?
And so we took a look at the data and we actually looked at how users are clicking through Clari when they’re using it. And we noticed a trend, it’s probably not going to be terribly shocking to you, but users use Clari three to five minutes before their one-on-one forecasting meeting with their managers. I could literally go and tell you exactly when that meeting was because that’s when they updated their forecast in Clari.
I think everybody at Clari, everybody at WalkMe would tell you, “That’s not why we use Clari. That’s not why we bought Clari.” Clari’s so much more valuable of a tool than just simply that. So we started working with our CSM at Clari who’s great, and we built in walkthroughs and guidance and we put WalkMe on top of Clari to drive the right engagement in Clari, to actually help us go win deals and close deals faster, and have a much tighter forecast on the number.
It’s done great. We can forecast the number pretty accurately now. And especially as a public company, you can imagine the importance of actually calling your numbers this quarter and next quarter, and knowing where you stand. But without the intelligence, I would’ve thought, “Hey, we’re doing a great job in that tool. It’s fine.” I wouldn’t have known really that we were missing a huge opportunity to drive better adherence in the pipeline.
Daniel Newman: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. You have effectively, not just, I mentioned the beginning taking the company to IPO, but since you’ve been at WalkMe, you drove revenue from what? About 35 million at the time, to now more than 200 million. I have to imagine that some of this work that you did, some of this optimization of tool utilization, I mean, this is how you manage a deal flow, right?
And as you get bigger and the organization gets bigger, you can’t have a deal flow be just la-di-da, lollygag, do it however we want, you know, everybody’s unique. You have to have some consistency and obviously as you take it from 200 million to a billion or whatever that next big milestone is, these processes become even more important.
Shane Orlick: It’s exactly right. And when we joined, we were a $35 million company, but we were a startup. We were probably closer to a $10 million startup, where we were hustling. We had half of our company in Israel. We had another half of the company in the US, so we were this global company, operating really as two separate companies with very little structure and process around the sales process. We had tons of structure and process and other areas, but we had product market fit. We had timing, we had a great sales team, the leader before me was great. So we had a lot of traction. We had a great marketing engine driving pipeline, and we were busy closing deals.
We were busy going out there and selling deals and implementing our software and it was all hands on deck to make sure our customers were successful in getting value and expanding. But that’s really where we were focused. We weren’t focused on the sales process and the sales infrastructure. So we knew that as we grew, we were going to need that and especially over the last year, as we got ready to go public, we had to implement a lot more process and a lot more infrastructure again, to support the process, a lot more technology to support the process. So, imagine you’re trying to run the sales engine, we’re trying to hire as fast as we can and grow as fast as we can. We’re trying to make sure that we’re hitting our commitments to the business. And oh yeah, by the way, we also have to implement all these additional systems so that we can be a public company.
We started planning out 18 months and then 12 months, and we did a pretty good job of getting ready to go public but there was a lot of, of new technology that we had to implement. So we have a policy at WalkMe, where all new technology has to have WalkMe on top of it so that we could drive that engagement and adoption right out of the gate, and we can drive the value out of the tools that we were expecting to get. I can’t imagine trying to do this without having WalkMe on top of that technology. It for sure would have crushed the engine, I think, trying to implement that much over the last year.
Daniel Newman: Yeah, and you guys really also had to change your whole narrative from being this point solution company that’s, “Oh, this is the company that you get little pop-up bubbles when you’re using your SaaS-based CRM solution,” to a company that’s building an analytics platform to help companies better understand the utilization, their tools, providing recommendations and intelligence that you can then utilize to improve that utilization, to get that the better outcomes that you talked about earlier, that wasn’t a small lift. I remember when I first learned about you guys, I’m like, “Oh, cool. I can use Salesforce more effectively because it’s going to show me a pop-up bubble of how to … basically intelligent process automation or like an RPA almost in some ways, and you’ve really evolved from there.
Shane Orlick: Yeah. That’s the thing that gets me, probably the most excited here. We’re just starting the journey and Dan and Rafi, when I met him four and a half years ago, had this vision for these different stages of how to light up the market. We’re creating this new category, we’re creating this new thing, and so you’ve got to balance the level of change that the market can understand and accept, with our actual vision of where we want to go, which is really big.
So, it’s exciting to be in that second and third act now, as we start to go from simple guidance on the solutions, I think that was act one, then we turned into more of a front-end communication platform where you could actually pop a communication to your team, to your company, and you could say, “Hey, today’s the last day of open enrollment.” And they can click that button and WalkMe will take them right into that system to complete that sign up. Or you can publish a press release or a case study. Marketing can create a case study, you can click on WalkMe to publish it and it’ll take you straight into LinkedIn. Highlight that button and now your whole sales team just amplified your message across social channels.
So, that was the second act, going from this reactive guidance solution to more of a proactive grab, your users where they are and take them through this journey that you want them to go through, to now this third act, which is all around intelligence and data. With WalkMe, if you can, if you want to rather, some banks don’t want user level click through analysis, other organizations love it, but if you want it, we can literally go down to the end-user and look at every single one of their clicks and every single piece of technology and then we could bubble it all the way up to a CIO level dashboard, where they can see the entire footprint of their technology.
This is that third act that we’re now feeling the market’s ready to process and jump on top and it’s really working. So, this is the time where CIOs now are starting to get really excited and they’re starting to bring us into conversations. So, really it’s that third act and you can imagine as a sales leader, trying to train the sales organization that here’s the story we want to tell today, but here’s the story we want to tell tomorrow and our customers of course, are dragging us to go faster and we’re trying to hold back, and basically trying to make sure that the sales reps understand how to sell at the right stage.
Then if you think of, this compounds the challenge here, most software companies have a solution that they sell to a buyer that solves a specific problem and then you just repeat it, and then you implement it and you have a CSM org that supports that problem. With WalkMe, the problem that we solve is guiding your users through the technology you own to get the value out of the tool that you bought. But think about what that actually means in the real world. Our buyer could be the CIO who sees all the technology, it could be the head of sales who just cares about the tech stack and making their sales reps more efficient. It could be the head of HR who cares about all the processes and systems that you need across the whole entire organization. It could be the head of the contact center who just cares about context center tools and the value that you’re going to get out of those first contact resolution, or average handle time, or net promoter.
So I need to have a sales team that can understand that buyer’s persona and understand where they are at that journey and map our solution back to meeting that buyer. Because if I’ve got somebody telling a call center solution story to a head of HR, you’re going to miss that whole opportunity. So, that’s been another challenge, which is making sure that the sales reps can understand, based on the persona they’re selling to, that the actual value that WalkMe will help that customer unlock. That’s been an added challenge. We actually use WalkMe for that.
We’ve created this really cool tool called PitchMe that lives right in Salesforce and a sales rep can click on that. It asks some HR, sales, call center, CIO, whichever function we’re selling to. Then the second question asks them what level we’re selling to, and then is it a discovery, a demo, is it a qualification call? Is it an ROI? Is it a business case? And basically that rep is picking the tools that they need through WalkMe, and then WalkMe assembles all the right content into the right answer for that rep. But it’s stuff like that, I can’t imagine trying to do this job without leveraging that technology to help us be successful.
Daniel Newman: Yeah, absolutely. By the way, your passion, it comes through. It’s always good to hear, I sometimes say companies eating their own dog food, although I’ve been told that’s not quite as appealing as maybe saying drinking your own-
Shane Orlick: We prefer sipping our own champagne.
Daniel Newman: Sipping on your own champagne. But you know what, both really do serve a purpose. By the way, I love my dog, so nothing against dog food. So, you hit on a lot of things I wanted to ask you about, you did it organically, great, save me having to ask you a few of the questions. By the way, I love that because like I said, as you got more fired up, you started hitting things like the role of data, cross departmental, the business processes, all the complexities in the tech stack. Talking about complexity though, one thing I did want to ask you about that you didn’t touch on is, how important is the no-code component?
We hear about low-code no-code. I am an advocate for developers, I’m not going to lie. I’ve talked about this regularly. I think pro-code can be instrumental in parts of an organization in creating world-class experiences, but we are certainly seeing a lot of momentum towards low-code and no-code because I think, speed, because of opportunity. It’s a big part of WalkMe’s story.
Shane Orlick: Yeah, it’s critical. I can’t imagine, if we didn’t have our no-code solution, I can’t imagine how we could keep up with the pace of change. So, WalkMe has become the cult. It’s become the DNA and fabric of our company, creating walkthroughs to automate processes that are just annoying, or keep us from being able to do our work and the ability for end users, normal people, that don’t know code, that aren’t programmers to be able to impact this change, is critical to that pace, because if we had to go back to IT and have them build something every time we had an idea, we would only be able to do probably 10% of the things that we can actually deliver on our product.
For us, it’s about change management. Once you think of that process, once you think of that behavior that you need to drive at scale, then you just reverse engineer. Okay, so if this is what I’m trying to get them to do, what’s the path of least resistance? And then it’s simply just putting WalkMe on top of that, and literally think of us as this pane of glass that sits on top of that technology, and we’re simply recording the steps that are necessary in order to accomplish that process. That’s fundamentally different than any of the RPA or other things that you hear about, where it actually takes a ton of engineering work, a ton of code that needs to be created, and the processes are inflexible, and we all know how processes change, and you need to be able to have a system that can change with those processes, or else you’re always going to have to go back and fix things. So for us, it’s core to our identity and a core to the success that we have.
Daniel Newman: So we only have a few minutes left and by the way, I love that you touched on that, I love that you defined how that fits, because like I said, I think there’s a case for all three stacks.
There’s a low-code stack, there’s a no-code stack, and there’s a pro-code stack. I don’t think developers need to necessarily find a new line of work yet. I think great developers will always rise to the top and of course, when it comes to simplicity that we need to be able to do things faster, we need to be able to make modifications to our apps, our software, to be able to meet the needs of our business and our customers in real time or in rapid time. That’s where this low-code, no-code is huge. Then of course, citizen developers, a whole nother story, giving access to everybody who’s not actually a developer in any way, the ability to, because of their knowledge of the business and the business’ needs, to develop things that can then either be iterated on or immediately implemented.
Shane Orlick: Yeah, can I touch on that for a second? Because I think that’s a great point. You know good developers, there is no shortage of work for them. So this is definitely not saying that they’re not necessary in the process. Developers actually love WalkMe because they can put a lot of this onto their end users and they can work together with their end users, so we’re definitely not a competitive threat to those other solutions. We’re very much complimentary. In fact, a lot of groups that are managing RPA within their organization are bringing WalkMe in to compliment RPA and put WalkMe into some other areas of the business where we can have a quicker impact and they can focus on driving those other solutions. So, yeah, it’s a great point, it’s very much complimentary.
I think even with the ISVs, we’ve gone through a great transformation over the last couple of years, actually three or four years ago, a lot of the ISVs and product people didn’t like the idea of WalkMe because they thought if they just could create elegant, great user interface, then they don’t need a solution like WalkMe because we’re a crutch for bad UI. But in reality, what happens is by the time that solution’s actually implemented into a large enterprise and integrated into other applications and into that work stream, that tool looks nothing like the product that was designed. So I think what’s happened is people have seen that WalkMe can actually come in, help bridge that gap between that beautiful UI you built and what actually got created out in the field and at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter. All that matters is user engagement and adoption, which drives happy employees and drives the P and L, and so that’s been a big shift that we’ve seen in the last 12 to 24 months.
Daniel Newman: Absolutely. So we only have a few minutes left and so I’m going to put a little bit of a challenge on you, Shane, because I want to ask you one question that probably would require more time, but I’m going to ask you to answer it in less time. Then the other one is just I’m going to give you a little chance for a plug, giving the audience a preview, so everybody out there, you appreciate why you need to stay with us till the end of the show. You’ve talked a lot about what WalkMe’s done with WalkMe, and you’ve talked philosophically about what customers are doing with WalkMe, but I’m a analyst in my audience here at Futurum Tech, we like to hear concrete examples.
On background, you talked to me a little bit about a really interesting case that you did with Red Hat. I’d love for you to just take a minute or two, talk a little bit about that work because Red Hat’s a massive company. Part of IBM, multi-billion dollars, redefining hybrid cloud, and they’ve chosen WalkMe very strategically.
Shane Orlick: Yeah. Yeah, that’s great. Happy to do it. So yeah, Red Hat’s a great customer of ours. We had worked with Red Hat probably for three years, and this is a great example of WalkMe four years ago and WalkMe today. So, we started off with Red Hat literally on Salesforce, and that was it, and to your point, some bubbles and some guidance.
Then over the years through the relationship, we got to Mike Kelly, who is the CIO of Red Hat who, great visionary and understood that the way that they were using WalkMe, there was a much bigger opportunity to actually implement across multiple systems. No process that matters to a business lives in one system. Think of a process like the average call center, probably has three or four different systems that an agent needs to go through in order to create one ticket, or to close out one incident for a call.
So Mike Kelly quickly understood this and said, “Hey, we actually don’t want you just on Salesforce. We want you across all the different systems that touch our sales team.” So, in the CPQ application on Salesforce, helping with prospecting, all these different areas of the business. So, Mike was able to also do something that was really cool and he has digital employee experience team that’s just focused on the internal digital employee experience and making sure that the employees at Red Hat are happy with the technology and actually getting the value out of the technology, and that the technology is a good experience, it’s not a hindrance.
So Mike quickly developed, actually refocused his team, to focus on WalkMe. Then we went around to each of the lines of business and understood, “Hey, what are the top 10 processes that would drive the biggest impact in your organization? Don’t think about the tools, don’t think about Salesforce, don’t think about the CPQ. Just what are the processes that you would want to drive in your organization if everybody just followed the right process? Or what’s the impact you would try to drive in your organization if everyone followed the right process?” And that’s how we worked with Red Hat to streamline the CPQ, actually get quotes out to customers faster, close more revenue, all kinds of great stuff. We have some really good case studies on that as well on our website.
Daniel Newman: Yeah, we’ll be sure to throw a few of these links into the show notes because for everyone out there that wants to read more. I know Shane, I did not give you enough time to completely do justice to the case study, but at the same time we could talk for 20 minutes and there would be details that would be omitted.
So, that’s the beauty of the pod, we’ll touch on it and then we’ll give people the opportunity to click down and dial in a little bit more. Speaking of clicking down, dialing in a little more, on the last topic I want to just touch with you really quickly, Dreamforce coming up next week. Salesforce has always been huge to the WalkMe ecosystem, anything big, any interesting things that listeners can expect from Dreamforce? What should they be looking at as it comes to WalkMe and Dreamforce?
Shane Orlick: Yeah, so we love Salesforce, we love Dreamforce. Most of Salesforce’s largest customers are customers of WalkMe. So, it’s great to be able to go out there and talk about the future and make sure that we’re helping deliver value together. We’ve got an executive dinner next week that’s coming up, anybody that’s interested, reach out to us. Then we’ve some other events coming up as well. You can see all of that on our website for the Salesforce conference, but yeah, lots of great stuff going on. I wish we were all together. I wish it was the good old days with a hundred thousand people in the city, but we’re making the best of the situation, so it should be a great event.
Daniel Newman: Yeah, next year I think we will be live again, that’s my prediction. I’ve been to a few events now live. I have a few more on my calendar. I’m optimistic, but at the same time, I understand companies need to be a responsible, be thoughtful and make their decisions to come back to public events and crowds. But man, I can’t wait to break bread and I can’t wait Shane, to do that with you one of these times, whether it’s at a WalkMe investor day or at Salesforce Dreamforce in 2023. Hopefully before then, 2023 that’s a ride 2022, 2023. But let’s definitely make sure we do that and Shane Orlick, chief revenue officer at WalkMe, thank you so much for joining the Futurum Tech Webcast show, love having you.
Shane Orlick: Thanks again for having me, Daniel.
Daniel Newman: I’m going to drop you out to the green room Shane, and I’m going to close up the show. So everybody out there, thank you so much for tuning in, listening to Shane, hearing all about the WalkMe story, he did a great job taking us through it, did a great job of almost predicting my questions and where I was heading. That’s the cue of someone that knows what they’re doing. That’s a salesperson at heart, that always does a little bit of that prediction of where the customer, in this case where the interviewer, is heading.
For everyone out there that enjoyed the show, definitely check out the show notes, some links in there to some of the case studies and the digital adoption guide that we did together with WalkMe. Hit that subscribe button, join us here at Futurum Research for more interviews from myself, from others on the team. We love being in touch with our community. So, got to say goodbye. I’ll see you next time, we’re out of here.